Episode 15 – The Passion Behind the Podcast with Mikayla Anderson and Michael McCrary

Show notes

We had the pleasure of speaking with Mikayla Anderson, Website and Graphic Designer of Revision Marketing Group and Michael McCrary, our amazing IT Support Specialist.
In this episode of EntreNetwork we cover several key topics including:

· Why we started 2 podcasts
· What we didn’t foresee
· Standard operating procedure for the podcast
· The small victories
· Before the shoot date
· The process after shooting
· Creating the intro and outro
· Syncing video and sound
· Growth throughout the process
· Uploading to Otter and Anchor

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Team RMG 00:00
Welcome to entre network brought to you by revisione Marketing Group. This podcast is meant to serve as an entrepreneurial knowledge base of wisdom and practical tips and marketing, branding and technology to help grow your business effectively.

Sidney Jackson 00:18
Hey, welcome back to entre network podcast. This is Sydney, your host. Today I have two special guests. Most of the time they’re behind the camera, or behind the sound equipment. Not Makayla. But Michael. So Michael is our incredible it supports specialists. But he also manages to podcast overall audio. So he does audio engineering, and he does the video production work as well. And then Mikayla is our project manager, she makes sure that the podcast is good, and we’re still on track, and we get all of this stuff pushed out within a timely manner. So let’s start with Mikayla. What’s your row with just the podcast overall?

Mikayla Anderson 01:06
Okay, um, there’s a lot. So, for those of you who don’t know, we have two podcasts, we have entre network. And we also have young creatives hosted under revision marketing group. So aside from doing things with clients, and doing deals, and all these other things, we decided to do two podcasts that release new episodes weekly, at the same time, all at the same time. Yep.

Sidney Jackson 01:38
So Michael, what’s your role within both podcast?

Michael McCrary 01:42
Well, this just like you said, technical, just setting up, you know, sound and video, the cameras, the lights, running the test on the mics, make sure we all sound good. And, you know, just getting all of the content and then throwing it into Adobe. And you know, taking the audio and cutting it up making it sound nice, you know, it’s making it sound good. And then taking the audio. Donate in with the video, making sure the video looks all good. And all the appropriate branding graphics, all that stuff we can get into more later. It’s definitely a lot.

Sidney Jackson 02:20
So the reason we started two podcasts at the same time was we started young creatives, because I’m older. So the team said, Hey, I’m you’re too old to be well, you should have your own podcast, as you’re too old. Yeah, pretty much. So young, creative features younger, the younger generation, even though I’m like a year older, which is crazy. But it’s focused on young creatives, or millennials in the workplace, and how they can express that creativity. Mikayla can explain that a lot better than that kid. Yeah, so it’s like a total joke that he’s too old to be arguing creatives, because he’s already been on it a lot.

Mikayla Anderson 02:59
But with young creatives, I think it focuses on young people in traditional eight to five. And then what they do outside of that, or how they bring creativity into their eight to five. So before I came to revision, I thought creativity was like art, music, different things like that. But now seeing it within different things like it, seeing different things within like the baking and all that kind of stuff like music. But yeah, so our mission is basically to highlight that creativity and show shine light on those different things within young people and a lot of different markets. So yeah, yeah. For entre network, it was started as like a passion project, always had something in mind to help support entrepreneurship, and just talk about it and

Sidney Jackson 03:55
listen to people’s story, the good, the bad, and ugly. So this platform just kind of allowed for me to be a student. So have some really special guest on in a talk about their overall story. And then I just listened in, and then ask some questions that I’m super curious about, just on this entrepreneurial journey, and then also adding value to our audience. So talking about marketing and branding, pulling technology until we had a good mix of episodes, just to add value, but also tell a story of different entrepreneurs. So that’s what this season was primarily about. So this episode, we’ll talk more so about some of the technical stuff, The Good, the Bad, the Ugly that we experienced with the overall podcast and I’m launching two at once, and then of course doing video production. In parallel with the audio you need audio for podcasts. But I’m coupling the video on top of that, and then how we was able to do branding for it. And then I’m doing snippets and everything and then communication and everybody support that they played. Someone who, who we don’t have on a podcast right now is Christian. So Kristin is the project lead. She’s incredible. She was for both podcast she and a face to what, just different prospects or different guests that we wanted on the show. And it was her mission to get them on a show and get them acclimated and stuff like that. And then just communication, making sure that we have the guests, they have the time to have the social media and stuff like that. But on the front end of it, let’s talk about the overall branding for both podcast. So with both podcasts, it’s somewhat different. So it’s under a revision Marketing Group brand. But we didn’t want to take on that identity. As far as like the brand concept. So like the color schemes GIF different for each podcast along with some of the graphics. Of course, entre networks, graphics is simplistic. It’s simplistic that that’s a word that I’ll use. Because I’m simple. I like to get straight to the point. And it’s, it would have been black and blue if it was up for me. But Mikayla is the project manager. She said, No. I’m actually designing some awesome graphics. And then Christian assisted in terms of building out those graphics for each individual, individual episode. So you want to kind of talk more about it. Yeah. So before we started these podcasts, I’ve been working with Sydney for

Mikayla Anderson 06:55
10 months, less than nine years, less than I know, probably like eight months or so. And so I feel like I had a really good handle on what Sydney liked. As far as like graphically, he’s a very simple man, he doesn’t like complicity with his graphics. For that it’s from a branding standpoint, it’s super hard to so looking at it from a holistic approach, right? When you have this many outlets for like medium. So if we came up with like a super complex design, for like the social graphics, and like photos and stuff like that, it would be extremely hard to duplicate that across the video platform that we use, which is Premiere Pro and After Effects, we can definitely do it. But my skill set just isn’t there. And we didn’t want to outsource it to somebody else. So simplicity was to go for that because we knew we wanted to have it not just on like for graphics, but also pull some of those brand elements into Premiere Pro with a video, motion graphics and stuff like that and still have something that’s consistent. So when people see on your network, and they see young creative, it’s consistent, whether it’s a photo, or it’s a video, or YouTube thumbnail or right. So balancing those two things were a little different, difficult for young graders, just because we did have a lot of ideas graphically. Um, but that really helped us like as far as like nailing down what aspects we needed to have her branding, because when we were making certain things, we weren’t thinking about video, or we weren’t thinking about social media, things like we were only thinking about the one thing that we were working on. And that was a lot of learning. It was a really big learning curve at first. But going into season two, we’re definitely super excited. And we know what to expect,

Sidney Jackson 09:01
as far as what materials are needed. So yeah, definitely. So with the podcast, it’s a lot of stuff that we just didn’t foresee. And we didn’t didn’t understand how difficult it would be to develop all of this content specifically for to podcast on a consistent basis. Now that we do, we’re better equipped to plan this stuff out and strategize a little bit more and anticipate some of these things. So the biggest hiccup that we found was the video production workflow. So we do video production every now and then for clients and stuff like that, but not at a scale where it’s consistent and you working with 4k footage and you’re dumping it into network drive and all of these technical things, and then trying to edit it on more than one computer. It’s a insane workflow. And most of that is kind of like contingent on Are you have to have the video content. So we can push that out on social media. So you have all these stage skates, so to speak, where it’s like, hey, we already recorded the footage. Now we have to release the long form video, which is going to be YouTube. And then short form snippets, which is going to be on Instagram, LinkedIn, all of these different platforms. So what all have that in mind and still looking at trying to get more for the next week and release some additional ones for additional week and scheduling, guest and rescheduling guests and then doing internal podcast. So we didn’t anticipate how tough it would be.

Mikayla Anderson 10:47
Right at all. With that, I think, my favorite part and then like this entire process was, so each person in this like, company at basically has like some of their own projects. So my goal deals with a lot of state and federal contracts, as do I but it’s very segregated in the way. And as far as Christian, she does a lot of like the events and communications with clients said he does everything else. So we don’t really get a lot of insight outside of the podcast of what each of us are working on. And so putting these out on a weekly basis, I would say has extremely improved teamwork, communication, and the ability to see growth among other team members, just because now I get excited when Michael’s like, oh, yeah, I got the audio done in like 10 minutes. Because, like the first episode, how long would you say like, in the beginning? How long would you say it took you like an audio edit? Yeah, like a couple hours? And so how long do you turn them around now? 3045 minutes that most.

Sidney Jackson 11:59
So it’s out it um, it goes back into our values of constant improvement, which is really good. Because going into it, it’s like, everything is new. Yeah, everything is extremely new. And we pushed a team push myself as well, to a point where it’s like, I don’t know how to do this. I don’t know how to do this. But I’m with Tom and patched and then just been able to ask questions and research, everyone was able to constantly improve over the season of both episodes, or podcast, which is phenomenal. Because if you look at Episode One, compared to Episode 11, or 12, this one, the production quality is better, the audio quality is better, the show notes are better. And us interfacing with different guest is a lot better, because it was able to streamline the overall process. And I want to talk about Michael, we got this awesome document here. And we do a lot of SOPs, which is standard operating procedures with this pack has been so dense, as far as like what you have to do on a weekly basis. And then it’s handed off to the project manager and then a sound engineer size video editor, and then me to review and then Christian to reach out to prospects or guests, or social media or anything scheduling social media and getting the video edits and stuff like that. Show Notes. It’s a lot. It’s a lot. So this is kind of like the foundation that we use. A Michael developed it. It’s the foundation that we use for pretty much checklists where it goes into detail on what has to happen at each stage. So we call those stage gates, like the first one is come up with a topic and a guest. And then we put that into our well. Let’s talk about the SOP first. And then the next one is reaching out to guest and gathering information such as the if they’re actually interested coming out without Fisher questions, where we have this document that time Bran would both entre network and then young creative that we officially send to the guests on welcome welcome mean them and talking about what we’re trying to accomplish with the podcast. Say they have idea about it and also are prompted with the questions. And even that I think it touches three out of four people in a team. So just that alone, it’s a lot before we even start recording. Yep, it’s well before we started recording, and then basically gathering all of that information we streamline that process, but everything was we all was able to come up and see what we did. On each stage gate. Identify which stage Do what actually was, and then just wrote it down on paper. And then of course, typed it up. And from there, we was able to test it. So we basically just tested it printed out the paper and said, hey, does this work? Or should we do this instead? Or a good one is the call that we have before we actually scheduled a podcast, where young creative, we had two different workflows, or we was, for the first two or three episodes, it was like ad hoc, where we’re getting getting guests in and talking about topics and stuff like that. But it’s more so on a fly, because we know we have to do it on a weekly basis. But as we gathered that information, and Dan, I was doing outreach and getting guests in for their own podcasts, we came to consensus and then came together and was like, which one is the best approach and took from both. So with that, I think having two podcasts that helped out a lot, as far as us being able to get everything situated quickly.

Mikayla Anderson 16:12
I think this was before we even released the podcast, like we did three, three or four episodes for each podcast before we were like, Alright, we’re gonna announce this. So we did a lot of a lot of legwork upfront, to be able to catch up and push them out for the new year. Exactly. And with that, we didn’t really have any, like video templates, I think we only had like social media post, which was the graphics that’s like, hey, excited to interview this person. And we had brand kits with the colors and logos and stuff like that. But we didn’t integrate like the video graphics until a little bit later. And then we always want to say smacked and on top of it, that yeah, we smacked it on top of the video

Sidney Jackson 17:02
after, so after the three, four episodes, and then we had all this data, and then we had issues with the shared drive, which was a network drive. So from a technical standpoint, because me and Miko love to get into the tech, technical stuff, how we manage the data. It’s so we, we have, we have two editing PCs that we use for video production. Primarily, we use Adobe suite or Creative Cloud. So that’s Premiere Pro and After Effects. But we also use a Panasonic GH four, GH five, and then a Sony a seven, free for video production and photography. So we shoot 4k, and it’s a lot of data per episode, especially, it’s a lot of data per episode, if it’s an in person one. So we stored that data on, or we stored it on a network drive, which is a custom built PC that held 12 terabytes, but it’s redundant. So I think we have 410 terabyte drives on air, which is 40 terabytes, which is a lot of data, or a lot of storage capacity. But of course, we want to be able to make sure that they save. So that’s where the redundancy comes in. And that’s a RAID array. I forgot what number it is. But we had issues with that. So we had to move on to building a not a computer or revamping a computer that we had definitely in the office. Yeah. To handle the, the just the raw data that’s coming out of it. And then we well, next season will most likely implement a larger SSD. Or we’ll probably do two episodes on a weekly basis and then offloaded onto the network drive, which is a little bit slower. But yeah, that that’s the stuff. Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. Um, it’s a lot of moving parts to just the video podcasts that people don’t see. But we want to kind of shed light on it because it’s, um, it’s definitely fun and rewarding, I think the podcast and allows us to talk to one another, even though we do that throughout the day, but talk to one another about stuff that we’re passionate about, and work that we that we’re actually working on and then interview some amazing people and let other people tell our story. And then also, the process of constantly improving upon our process is stuff that we enjoy to do or that we’re growing to enjoy to do that we didn’t know was so fulfilling. Thing Miko I think yesterday or the day before yesterday, you as an audition, and you was able to clip the, the tracks together. Yeah. And he was like, Yo, it’s always, I mean, I mean, just generally saves me like,

Michael McCrary 20:16
one tiny step. But even then, like, when you’re doing it so much, you know, those few seconds difference, you know, they really feel like, a lot. And you know, especially when it’s like with editing, audio and sequences, like, because what I had to do before is if I had to, you know, split that. So I, what I would have to do is, you know, to insert a commercials audio into the middle of the podcast, you have to find a good point in the podcasts, audio, where there’s a kind of a stop in the conversation, or kind of a pause, where you can cut it, have some space in between it and then throw some commercial like, you know, give it a little bit of a pause, and then other commercials audio in there, let it kind of fade out and then let that the main audio come back in. Yeah, so I’m taking the just the main podcast edit that I had done prior without the commercial, which is just the professional audio with an intro and outro for whatever podcast it is, of course, with the levels normalized, you know, cutting things to wear, using the Hard Limiter function in an audition to make sure nothing. And then normalizing and all around negative three decibels, which is a pretty standard, I think for most sound production, or I don’t know all the science behind decibels, I didn’t pay attention that day in fourth grade science. I do all that I cut all that and normalize all that. And then I go back into that and audition and I say okay, and now I find a point where the waves kind of go in, there’s nothing, nothing going and then cut it. And then before I would have to take the entire audio track and move it and sometimes I think he actually had one time where we had some podcast audio that I had moved to put a commercial in. But I forgot to I had forgotten to go back and push the the track that went after that. So they got overlaid. So in audio that was exported, they were both both of these audio tracks were playing on top of each other. And it sounded like it was didn’t sound good. So what I would have to do is make sure really make sure that I was going into make sure I was moving that back. And then I would have to realize like the outro audio, which is actually isn’t really that hard because of how I try and do it. But it’s still that’s like I mean it I mean, at the most it takes like a minute or two. But even then it’s just kind of like, Oh, I got to do this again. But yeah, just like going and looking a little bit more through the right tab options. When I highlighted everything because I knew how stuff in Premiere was linked audio and video files and the tracks and Premiere. And I was like, Well, surely I can do this in Audition, too. And sure enough, there it was. So now I don’t have to go in there and move it, I can just make it all one thing and then move it all and it all moves together. So indeed makes my life a lot easier.

Sidney Jackson 22:53
And just things like that, where it’s like you learned so much within these different programs. And I want to give a huge shout out to Adobe. This is not sponsored by them. This is sponsored sponsor reconstruction. But it’s Well, Tom this episode, look for more sponsorships. Next season, potentially. Right. But yes, it will be happening, I promise. But um, it is just so much stuff that you can learn in Adobe. So what audition? Michael had a background and just sound overall, I think you said you played in a band. Well, I know I had a podcast when I was a kid. I’ve never told y’all. You did tell me that. Oh, I don’t talk about it a whole lot. No, I ran a or I didn’t run it. It was me and my younger brother and my mom. But we all we had a bug it was it didn’t run for very long. It was just something that we kind of did for fun. And people like in our family circle, listen to it or whatever. But no, yeah. So I had experience with that. And then yeah, I’ve been playing guitar and I’ve been been in bands. So yeah, and then I used to run soundboard at my church for a while there. So yeah, yeah, actually. Yeah, I did have some sound background, I guess. Yeah. Well, mine are they me, so me as well. With video production. I started, like just video production for like music videos and stuff like that. But the sound, I didn’t have to work with any kind of sound equipment. So once we started the podcast, we had to invest into just equipment. So I had to do a lot of research to see what to get. And all of this, like the overall podcast was inspired by Nick, who was Nick Jones, shout out, Nick, who was our videographer at the time. So I had a um, I always write like business plans and just plans to try to see what’s possible. And also give me the ability to write something down and really think it out and then come back to it a few months later and look at it See if it actually makes sense. So it helps me in the future. So that was entre network, which was probably a year, two years ago where I saw a need for more education and more knowledge in terms of entrepreneurship because I didn’t had it. I didn’t have it when I grew up. So I want to kind of feel that need, and also incorporate a mentorship program into it where you have a mentor, ie, I know, mentor, I guess. But also just educating people. So with that, Nick came up, we was in a snowstorm. Yep. And Nick was like, Hey, let’s come up with a podcast. And it was like what? So we named it co lab, co lab for collaboration.

Mikayla Anderson 25:54
You’re the real ones, if you know we’re talking about right now.

Sidney Jackson 25:58
So that’s where this kind of spun from, and then we invest in an equipment. And then we didn’t go down that path. But we was able to pivot. And then the podcast for entre network came about and then kolab became because colab was originally for us to kind of come together and just talk about collaboration, or the power of collaboration and us being creative in his creative agency, and our outlets and stuff like that. So that pivoted into young creatives, because most of us are young except me. Stop. So I have the old person on your network, which is this one, which is if you’re listening, you’re probably the older generation, no offense. But no, it is good. Because with that, it’s a lot of knowledge and a lot of wisdom. And that’s what I am trying to learn, or what we’re all trying to learn, and really just provide value that way where we educate people, and then they educate us as well, because a lot of the questions and a lot of the guests that we had on this season for entre network. It’s like, oh, I didn’t know that. I didn’t know this was possible. So it’s all Yeah, I’m always talking about talking to our talking about the older generation, just a wealth of knowledge. But I digress. What do overall podcast that was kind of like the origin story, but we had to invest in equipment. And it stayed dormant for a while. So we invest in and I think the road caster Pro, and then some mics and then we probably shouldn’t. And then we recently got these little things, and then chairs and stuff like that. And we recently got the floors redone in here. So it looks a lot better an office that we’re at now. And then we have a table and kind of dedicated this office or this room for just overall podcasting. So with that, it’s it’s been a journey, definitely investment. But the return on investment in terms of what we’re able to talk about, and building personal brands and connections with different people is just incredible. And I look forward to keeping it up. But um, yeah, let’s get back into the overall SOP. Um, yeah, so what the shoot date or before the shoot day, we have a interview with the guests, and where we give them a call just to learn a little bit more about them. Because some guests that we have, it’s people that we don’t truly know, but we think they would add value to the audience. So we interview them first as a team, and then we tell them our overall rows, and then they tell us about themselves. And then we go over to questions. And if they have any questions that they want to add and stuff like that, that’s where we put it on a questionnaire. And gather,

Mikayla Anderson 29:07
I would argue that this is honestly one of the most important steps before shoot date. And I only say that because I didn’t even recommend doing this until I researched it. And then it made sense, because I was inviting somebody on young creatives that the team didn’t know. And so even though I knew I was going to be interviewing him, I still want Michael to know who he is in case he has to reach out to him or Cindy has to reach out to him or Christianize to reach out to him. And honestly, it’s been like the best like because you can go into a pre interview thinking okay, this is what we’re going to talk about, at least for first season. We’re going to talk about second season a little bit later. But for first season we had like, Okay, this is what we’re going to talk about. And then you have like the person, but then the person can start talking about something completely different, that you think is absolutely incredible. You still want to highlight on the podcast, but you, it changes. And so that’s when we came up with the idea to do the questions. The official quote unquote, questions after the pre interview, because we were doing that vice versa before. Yeah,

Sidney Jackson 30:31
it was changes. Yeah, ask them but with that, it’s always a constant improvement and learning. So with season two, it’s going to be better and more organized and structured. But on well before to shoot date, we don’t have like the we have the topic. And then we don’t really have like the well lately we have and going forward, we will, but we didn’t have like the the episode number. So dealing with everything in like Canva, creating a social media post with the episode number on there. And then creating a folder where we dump the footage and stuff like that, it’s important to associate that number or the name of dough Fishel podcast with those, so it’s consistent. Because the structure that we have right now we have data, pretty much everywhere, pretty much everywhere. So the raw audio. So if you look at it, we record to the podcast or pro onto SD card. And then we have the two cameras that record just the video and captures the audio but not the professional audio. So we have three sources of data as you will. So we dump or Miko dumps the camera a camera B, and then audio into onto the computer. At first it was a network drive. But editing over Ethernet connection is fun. And slow. So now we’re doing it on the local machine and backing up on a nightly basis to the network drive. But with that, everything lives on that one computer, and then it’s backed up on other ones. So Michael edits the audio first. Or if you want to kind of get into like your process after we shoot.

Michael McCrary 32:28
Oh, okay. So, we shoot, um, the first thing I do is just dump the footage. As mentioned, just take everything take, like, I mean, just whatever’s there, edits, and all the raw footage, you just take it and take it from the SD card from the camera from the soundboard, you know, wherever we record it, and just, you know, get it on to wherever it’s going to be stored via network drive via local machine, whatever. And that takes a little bit of time, because you know, you’re just transferring large amounts of data over anything. Once you have all that though, like because we have you know, folders for every, every podcast, you know, we have different, you know, directories and things like that, we try to keep it pretty consistent with the folder templates that we use, make sure everything you know, just at least in terms of the file structure looks the same. So you can say, all right, like this is where if this thing is not there, this is where it should be basically. And so from there, once I’ve got everything off, clear off the SD cards, and then First things first and the audio, I’m pretty much because like you kind of mentioned earlier, like it’s a podcast, I mean, if you want to have any, I think if you want to have any content ready for I mean, it’s a podcast, right? But also, specifically really, like practically because you know, we need that edited sound file to be able to sync it with the video file, which is you know, something that you can do in Premiere, you know, just video editing software in general because if we just use the audio from the cameras, you know, we’d be sound like we’d be talking inside of a trash can, you know, like sound echoey and tinny and it would sound lame. So go in and go into the audio and audition go into the sequence which is basically the way that audition and a lot of sound editing software works is that you all your tracks are like these, it’s like a big view and it’s got basically like stacks kind of like a just like a like a just a stack of rectangles basically and each one operates as an individualized sequence that controls whatever audio file that you drag in there which is in and of itself a little rectangle that takes up you know a certain part of that track right? And when you play it there’s a little line that goes across it you know it plays everything is as it as it comes across etc etc. And you layer different things like if you like if you were making a song for example, you would have one layer for your bass one layer for your or once you know one sequence for your bass, one for your drums, one for your vocals one For your, your instruments, and you know, they would all be playing at different intervals. But you know, that’s how you would figure out how things go and you move it around where it all is. It’s all on. It’s all synced together. It’s the same. It’s the same logic with the podcast. So, you know, we have the intro, you know, which plays first

Sidney Jackson 35:17
and the intro was produced by Miko, actually, yeah, I did do the intro.

Mikayla Anderson 35:23
And the outro. Well, I

Michael McCrary 35:25
mean, it’s the same thing. But you know,

Sidney Jackson 35:26
and when we say did it, he actually brought the guitar and a bass drum. And what else was it? Well,

Michael McCrary 35:32
I just I, I bought, I brought my guitar. And I brought I had a friend of mine, he let me borrow his a big like, African style hand drum. I brought that in my amp, because I don’t have access, some that we needed to buy for years is one of the USB instrument interfaces, so you can plug an instrument directly into your computer. A good buddy of mine who makes a lot of music at home has one and I keep seeing it at his house. And I’m like, I gotta get one of those.

Sidney Jackson 36:00
Or you can just take this Oh, rapper.

Michael McCrary 36:03
Okay, like, I could do that. But, uh, so I, you know, did my best to, you know, reduce any sound, enacting extra noise, and then just figured out a chord progression. And I played it, and then you know, I put on headphones, and, you know, play the drums along with it as it was playing in my headphones. And then I went into audition and kind of did just did what I said, I threw the drum track in there, I drew through the guitar track in there. And it was a little tedious because I was still a little. I mean, I’m still honestly like, I want to make music in that way. But it’s so much of a different process because it’s music and there’s so many other like, even just from aside from audition, you know, you’ve got Ableton and FL, there’s so many different digital audio workspaces. Yeah. So I had to kind of sit there and finagle with it to make sure it was on beat and had to record it record a couple times, and it still was missing something. So I went on the Internet and I found like a sample of like a somebody’s hitting like a tambourine is what they’re called. And then I just, I sat there and listened to it and dropped literally dragged a little little sa